Message #297 (297 is last):
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:56:45 -0700
From: quag7@frostwarning.com (Quag7)
Subject: Re: [azsecularhumanists] "Democracy" in Israel and "anti-Semitism"
To: azsecularhumanists@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: azsecularhumanists@yahoogroups.com


On Friday 11 January 2002 08:45, you wrote:
> The only people in "Israel" who "elect" their leaders are the

> clique of Jews and a few Arabs who live within the 1948

> borders.  Nearly half of those living under the control of the

> Jerusalem government have no right to vote. That is not what

> is usually called "democracy".  Most people call that

> "apartheid".  Further, it is not democratic to give the vote

> to invaders who have no business being there in the first

> place.


I assume you'd believe the same of America, which ought to be 
given back to the Native Americans?  Where is the "cut-off date" 
for you at which the descendents of a people can no longer be 
blamed for the actions of their ancestors?

> s for anti-Semitism, it is the Zionists who practice it most

> severely. Most Ashkhanazim are not Semites, but all Arabs are.

>  Ashkhanazim are generally of mixed Aryan and Turkic ancestry.

>  Those Jews in Israel who truly are Semites (Moroccan, Yemeni,

> and Iraqi Jews) are treated as second-class citizens and

> almost as badly as Arabs.


The term has migrated to mean something else.  Call it whatever 
you want.

> Those who doubt that the Jews control the government should

> try to find one senator or congressperson who does not take

> money from AIPAC and look at the record of continual

> congressional support for Israel when it is clearly contrary

> to the interests of the American people (remember the 1973 oil

> embargo!)  Those who doubt the Jewish control of the media

> should look at the names of the CEOs and leadership of the

> great monopolies and look at the list of names on the credits

> of any Hollywood movie.


Oh for god's sake.  And I'm responsible for Stalin's crimes 
because I have a Russian last name?  That's just stupid, man.

> Lastly, this is the secular humanist board, not the Jew board.

>  Jews and Jew-lovers don't belong here.  All atheists and

> secularists are enemies of this gutter religion and the

> imperialist ideology of Zionism that is based upon it

> (although some fundamentalist Christians are even more

> fanatical supporters of Zionism than most Jews).  Government

> support of Zionism and Israel and government sanction of the

> Holocaust myth are the greatest threats with which separation

> of government and religion is faced today.


Well, no problem, I'm gone.  This mailing list clearly has 
nothing to do with secular humanism.   And for all of your 
posturing here, no doubt gleaned from white supremacist rags, 
you utterly failed to mention that Israel is not a theocracy and 
the vast majority of Israelis are secular Jews and that much 
like the situation in Northern Ireland, religion is just a thin 
veneer for the secular political struggle which underlies it.

> Those who call themselves atheists and secularists but love

> Jews and Zionism are hypocrites or at best self-deceived.


That's funny considering how many Jewish secular humanists I've 
met.

I've known plenty of Jews, coming from New Jersey, and have 
found them by and large to be only nominally religious, almost 
always intelligent, and have enjoyed working, living, and going 
to school with them over the years.

Your dime-a-dozen collectivist musings are nothing new.  And why 
you brought the Turner Diaries into this when I never even 
mentioned it (written by cryptofascist and skinhead music label 
owner William Pierce) is questionable.  What a piece of crap the 
book was too.

You may well be an atheist but there's nothing humanist about 
your hate and sweeping broad statements about a whole people 
which are closer to fascism or Stalinism than they are to 
anything resmbling the kind of individualism that I hope to see 
grow in people.

Call me a Jew lover, or Zionist, or whatever, but if people like 
you didn't exist, the people who make up the pogroms, there may 
never have even been a State of Israel.

             -Rex Iscariot, Polish, whose people control Chicago 
and the sausage industry, apparently.

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